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Hagge5
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Tue May 31, 2011 10:57 pm

Cangor wrote:
DegeeeN wrote:
How about load code?
I read some one did abuse the code and so..
And i see that code IMBA LOOOOONG just for a hero and 0 gold 0 wood and no items and 7 spells -.- srsly?
I dont mind to write few seconds longer but it doesnt need to take that much time if i have nothing of nothing...

I believe it is long, even if you have nothing, is because of the Materials you have (Even if you got none, you still get code for it). An example is when i had wrote wrong code, without noticing it at first, i had 5 Iron. Next game after i saved and loaded i had 0. So in the code the material number is.
Note: This is only my own thinking.

That is correct.
Creating a save system that decreases in characters is almost impossible in GUI.
In order to find all substrings (parts of a code) you need to have everything in specific places (ex: 14,14/,14,15/2,3). Since different things would dissapear in different scenarios, I would have to do about 100+ load triggers (seriously)
Which would take about half a year if I work for several hours everyday (it often bugs with substrings)


Sverkerman wrote:
DegeeeN wrote:
If that is the case... then he can remove the "Game over" after a boss wipe?
Because i think he want us to start from first boss after a wipe right? and it is not cheating for me .. but i think he should know this. Smile

I don't want you to restart after a bossfight, that is incorrect.

However, to restart the game I need to have a trigger editing about 145 variables, boss hp, multiboard, unit groups, player groups and about 55 more things.

This makes it almost impossible for me to trigger, but I am planning on implanting such a system.

Using the command run trigger (ignoring conditions) will save you alot of pain.
Simply make it run every init trigger when you wish yo restart the game, thus resetting almost every variable (U gonna have to create some new set variables for all that is pre-set in variable editor and set them in init).

DegeeeN wrote:
risk.frishers wrote:
You usually run the cloth game? Compare how long it takes to run a cloth and a leather. Then you see, when your mediocre at it, you actually can't do it faster anyways, which makes it a lot more irritating. When you do it around 10 times you easily get bored. 20 usually brings me to another game.

Indeed.

If you ask me sverkerman you should first wait for this topic to fill up then publish the new version as you can see we are all F@#$%^ piss'd off by freaking mini games -.-


And i dont get it... is it your triggering or what?
DOTA has allmost trigger for everything but it doesnt lagg -.- i have 69 fps in Dota and in Bow it is around 15 WHEN i look @ dark place and the game is pause so? -.- wth dude.
Srslyy you should ask your self what are you doing ...

I see that you are not lazy, you are using WE for a couple of years and that map is huge and that there is so much elements ... but you srsly should arrange a team for you map, it can be good for you.

Also the summer break is in a weak or so ...

So if you take one job and some one else takes the other job etc.. there is less work for evveryone .. also you have us as members to help you in easy testing..

The lag in FPS is probably caused by alot of doodads for terrain (ITS OVER 9000)
A shitton if special effects (animations takes lots of FPS)
A leak or two (most of them are fixed, this should be fixed ASAP)
The zoomed out view, which causes you to look at more doodads and SPX.

Sverkerman wrote:
And how should I improve this?(about prof)
I don't think the problem lies in the current ways to do proffesions. It is the fact that they do not contain any ammount of randomness, casuing you to do the exact same things 200 times over. It bores you out, and that's annoying.

Rework the different proffesions, and make them more random, requiring you to focus.
Examples:
•Simon says: You get three circles that flashes in random orders (1+ for each time). You must click them in the right order or you lose.
You could either make it so that you gain more mats depending on how long you last, or give a "pull out" button that ends the game and give u mats. The longer u lasted the more chance you have to get mats.
•????: Youre in a square and enemies that travels straight downwards are created at random position. You must dodge them as long as possible.
Make same thing with loot here as the above one.

Things MUST happen on random positions or in random orders, so the minigame keeps feeling new and fresh.
IT IS ALSO XTREMLEY IMPORTANT THAT MINIGAMES ARE MUI
either that or make singleplayer possible.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal suggestions:
•Make items that arent gear tomes, so you dont need free item slots.
(like rare mats, mounts and trade thingy).
It is really annoying. And to walk over half the map with rare mat is just unnecessary and annoys the other players.
•Make a restart system after you die.
(you can try a new boss if you win, why not if you die? Just create him instead of having him stand there from the beginning, I can do it for you if you can't)
•Make it more obious where you are supposed to go.
Noobs are really confused about where to go and therefore doesen't give the game a chance. City terrain could be reworked to make this abit more obvious (like a portal arena really close to start)
•Make attachment for all items or remove attachment altogether (I would prefer remove altogether since it saves alot of filesize as well)
•Raise volume of boss voices. Im lazy, so u'll have to do it yourself, but just get the right programs, It isnt hard.
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:26 am

I dont really had the time to read all but i found on forum and on hive this thread

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/encoder-2-0-2-2-a-189883/

Its is ridiculously easy to implant and much much better then the system that is used now..


Also it isnt all in trigers people.
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:03 am

risk.frishers wrote:

1. You're not supposed to click right on them. You should know that after 300+ times. Besides, if you've played it more than 250 times I think you should have full prof gear.

I learned the hardway that you may only have a maximum of 5 of each material... I thought I was extremely unlucky =/, btw sverkerman.. you should add that to the list when you say -mats so that people dont have to go through what I went through ;p.

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:59 pm

DegeeeN wrote:
I dont really had the time to read all but i found on forum and on hive this thread

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/encoder-2-0-2-2-a-189883/

Its is ridiculously easy to implant and much much better then the system that is used now..


Also it isnt all in trigers people.

It isn't easy at all to implant since we need to modify the code so that it generates code for what needs to be saved in BoW. Noone on our team knows JASS except for krisier, and idk if hes willing to sit for hours trying to figure out how the code works.

The reason the save/load code is so long is because of materials, which covers roughly 30 charachters. However, if we used less charachters for each mat, it would be ridicilously easy to crack.

If you can modify the code so it saves the correct things, please do so Very Happy
Think that would make sverker really happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:14 am

I made a mistake i post this :

"
That is just supid.

The hunter doesnt have th "attack" abillity @ all mate.. and no spell can be used on right click.. so how did you find this sverkermans fault?

It is either your fault or Blizzard entertainments ..." in morbids post since i am a mod i tought it is mine cuz i have edit button -.- my fault also this is @ Morbid ..
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:17 am

Sorry for double post but!

Sverkerman i have to ask you if i can see the "BoW" triggers.

I am really busting my mind figuring some things out, also i am a map maker my self about 2-3 years now Very Happy

Also i dont want the map file i want to see the trigger's.

So can you help me? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:23 am

I will have to think about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:19 am

Why is Hunting and the cave so easy to make on proffesion train for mats?
The minigame takes more time and its way slower than the other 2 mat hunting stuff. Cant you make the hunting and cave running harder or something?

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:22 am

Chanse for cloth is 1.5x as high as the leather and stone.

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:31 am

Sverkerman wrote:
Chanse for cloth is 1.5x as high as the leather and stone.

dosnt mean the chance.. i mean the run to get mat
to get mat from cave and hunting is easy
but to get liek cloth the run is alot slower

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PostSubject: how to improve BoW farmgrounds   Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:36 am

you can improve BoW if u make hunting harder. you can make a wolf with 5% more walking speed than you and you have to ensnare him otherwise hes one hitting you. and hitting the bigs gets harder because ou cant use ensnare for them. other idea is that you make a timer for the cave that you have to hurry up and maybe that the interface is like gta 4 when you're drunk .if you have only the timer you only run threw and the drunken mode makes it harder to klick on the right fields.

MfG Hotandcold(ingame 5tuffma5t3r)
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:41 am

Hotandcold wrote:
you can improve BoW if u make hunting harder. you can make a wolf with 5% more walking speed than you and you have to ensnare him otherwise hes one hitting you. and hitting the bigs gets harder because ou cant use ensnare for them. other idea is that you make a timer for the cave that you have to hurry up and maybe that the interface is like gta 4 when you're drunk .if you have only the timer you only run threw and the drunken mode makes it harder to klick on the right fields.

MfG Hotandcold(ingame 5tuffma5t3r)

Yeh kinda something like taht would be awesome

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:47 am

or make a little mountainking for the cave following you he can cast a stormbolt making no dmg but short stun the cooldown is random betwee 5-7sek(if u can make it) with the timer you have to think about when to walk and when to stand and its going to be a nice challenge.
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:41 pm

I still think the proffesions really need more randomness, and therefore be totally remade.
It's to repetetive at the moment.

EDIT:
Oh right, I would also like to be able to do everything even if you don't have the proper number of players, aslong as you don't have more than the maximum.
Why cant we play 10-man with 9 players for example?
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:08 pm

Sverkerman i have an idea for item's that drops from chest.

What if you make the units selection scale bigger so it doesnt colide.. like the chest would be the same size but the circle "collision circle" dunno what it is called in editor Very Happy so that items cant collide Very Happy i hope you understand T_T
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:22 pm

I have an idea how to balance the minigames.

First off , erase all of them. Make 1 minigame you get a "Tokens" instead of mats, Token 1 for Cloth, Leather or Stone. Token 2 for Hardleather Wool and Iron. Token 3 for Dragonhide Silk and Thorium. Then you make only one way to teleport in, and there's X amount of different minigames, but It's random which one you enter. I'd also like to see a way how to make these games more multiplayer-friendly.

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:51 pm

Risk's idea has been approved and will be added to Bosses of Warcraft in the future.

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:00 am

Awesum!

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:10 am

its awesooouuuuuuuuuuuuuumeeeeeeeeee

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:21 am

risk.frishers wrote:
I have an idea how to balance the minigames.

First off , erase all of them. Make 1 minigame you get a "Tokens" instead of mats, Token 1 for Cloth, Leather or Stone. Token 2 for Hardleather Wool and Iron. Token 3 for Dragonhide Silk and Thorium. Then you make only one way to teleport in, and there's X amount of different minigames, but It's random which one you enter. I'd also like to see a way how to make these games more multiplayer-friendly.

You actually nailed pretty much my opinion there!
With the "tokens" do you mean something like you can trade an X amount of these in exchange for Y chance of dropping one or more of the materials the token stands for?

Also, yes, they have to be MUI and I would love to see a total remake.
It's pointless to even start a proffesion game if you have to wait 5 minutes for the players ahead of you to finish the minigame.

I agree, but couldn't you just make it so you can get any materials for each minigame and has slightly bigger chance for the ones that applies to your class? (ex: cloth for casters) Would save you alot of pain to create three times the minigames and would probably give players alot more diversity.
guys... don't spam awsome. I mean, you can write something with abit more meaning

EDIT:
DegeeeN wrote:
Sverkerman i have an idea for item's that drops from chest.

What if you make the units selection scale bigger so it doesnt colide.. like the chest would be the same size but the circle "collision circle" dunno what it is called in editor Very Happy so that items cant collide Very Happy i hope you understand T_T

I agree, but I don't think that will solve the problem (you mean increasing selection scale for items, right). Because you would still accidently select the wrong items.

What would be optimal would be to create a trigger that reacts to when the chest dies. Then it perhaps need to wait a second or so for debug (just make a dummy unit timer) and then you pick all items in range.

Do a loop from one to each item in group, then do a point with polar offset where the towards is 360/(Integer A/B). Set the range to like 200 and the following action to move item (one item from TempGroup for each loop).
This will cause all items to spawn in a circle with great distance from each other.
Will look sexy AND will be convenient Very Happy

You can also ignore the loop and just do it in the group actions, keeping check on the loops with an integer variable, this will perhaps be easier.
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:36 am

Actually, updated my idea and figured you can make just one kind of token, dropping from all the minigames. These tokens u can exchange like this.
1 Token = Cloth, Leather or Stone.
3 Tokens = Wool, Hardleather or Iron.
5 Tokens = Silk, Dragonhide or Thorium.
10? Tokens = Onyx.

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:41 am

risk.frishers wrote:
Actually, updated my idea and figured you can make just one kind of token, dropping from all the minigames. These tokens u can exchange like this.
1 Token = Cloth, Leather or Stone.
3 Tokens = Wool, Hardleather or Iron.
5 Tokens = Silk, Dragonhide or Thorium.
10? Tokens = Onyx.

Lumber could be utilized as "tokens". Lumber is already included in savcode (0-800 lumber). It was gonna be used for tournament rewards I think, but this would be a better porpuse.

Altough removing mats pretty much kind opf defeats the porpuse.
You might as well just "buy" proffesion items.

"Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... requires one onyx, one wool and 2 cloth...
That means I need 15 tokens..."
You won't really think of mats, just the tokens. Then why not just remov materials alltogether? Would save about 25 letters from the ""long"" savecode that everyone is complaining about.

It could work, but kind of breaks the whole, current, idea of proffesions.
I would personally say yes though. I think it would be simpler. You still get a random ammount of tokens as price, right? And a shorter savecode is always nice.
Just rewrite all tooltips.
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:22 am

Call it quests, or a job.

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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:32 am

risk.frishers wrote:
Call it quests, or a job.

Did you even read what I said?
Calling it something won't change the facts.
That's like saying:
"Wow, this map sucks, but if I'll call it "The great quest" It wont suck! God, I'm lucky I can make it awsome by changing the name, even though It has no triggers or terrain."

I think It's a good idea with tokens, but it still got no porpuse to keep materials then, Its just unnecesarry loadcode space and a pain in the @s.
Doing one single "quest" over and over and over and over and over again would be pretty damn redundant.

Without materials:
1. Win minigame
2. Go to a shop
3. Buy Item

With materials:
1. Win minigame
2. Go to a shop
3. Check what materials you need
4. Go to a token->material trader
5. Trade tokens for proper materials
6. Go back to shop
7. Buy Item

Seems lika alot of unnecessary work to me...
Well, I just hope sverker will make a better decision than what he did with the rare materials.
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PostSubject: Re: Improve Bosses of Warcraft   Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:01 am

Hagge5 wrote:

EDIT:
DegeeeN wrote:
Sverkerman i have an idea for item's that drops from chest.

What if you make the units selection scale bigger so it doesnt colide.. like the chest would be the same size but the circle "collision circle" dunno what it is called in editor Very Happy so that items cant collide Very Happy i hope you understand T_T

I agree, but I don't think that will solve the problem (you mean increasing selection scale for items, right). Because you would still accidently select the wrong items.

What would be optimal would be to create a trigger that reacts to when the chest dies. Then it perhaps need to wait a second or so for debug (just make a dummy unit timer) and then you pick all items in range.

Do a loop from one to each item in group, then do a point with polar offset where the towards is 360/(Integer A/B). Set the range to like 200 and the following action to move item (one item from TempGroup for each loop).
This will cause all items to spawn in a circle with great distance from each other.
Will look sexy AND will be convenient Very Happy

You can also ignore the loop and just do it in the group actions, keeping check on the loops with an integer variable, this will perhaps be easier.

This Hagge5 Smile Allways have a better solution Very Happy god damn Razz i hope svekerman doesnt ignores your post T_T
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